AS I RECALL, THE MEETING WITH EVANSVILLE VANDERBURGH SCHOOL CORPORATION OVER THE CREDIT FOR THE CENTRAL BEAR ART (August 19, 2016).
The players:
- Matthew Hawes, the artist
- Paul Neidig, EVSC Director of Staff, Director of Athletics
- Pamela Hight, EVSC Director of Marketing and Social Media
- Jason Woebkenberg, EVSC Spokesperson
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| A satirical representation of the meeting that took place. |
NOTE: Matthew Hawes came with his witness to the EVSC building on August 19, 2016 to meet with Paul Neidig and other members of the EVSC to discuss the situation regarding Matt's credit and recognition for the enduring image he drew of the Evansville Central Bear mascot which has served the school well for three decades thus far.
Below is a recollection of what transpired during that meeting.
After pleasantries had been exchanged, it got down to what this was all about (view my previous blog entry for the scoop on that).
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| Matt Hawes's 1987 drawing of the Central Bear mascot. |
Matt Hawes: “All this is simply about getting credit for my work.
And that, I’ve described, can be as simple as simple as putting a document in
the school that said I drew It (the bear drawing). I don’t expect any monetary
compensation, that was never what this was about. I stated that from the very
beginning. I’m not worried about any copyright issues. Even though I was
seventeen years-old, I understood it was for the school, whatever it was I was
doing. I just simply want basic acknowledgement.
“…This article (“The Centralian”, Volume 69, Issue No. 4,
October 10, 1986) basically states and supports what I was saying about Mr.
Koehler approaching me. He approached me in Mr. Carter’s art class and asked me
to draw…”
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| 1986 article from "The Centralian: where it is mentioned that a committee has elected an official image for the school mascot. Matt Hawes was approached by teacher David Koehler for what Matt understood was a contest to draw the mural for use by the school. |
Paul Neidig: “Just to unders… That article doesn’t say about Mr.
Koehler approaching you. Just of…”
Hawes: “No, no, it doesn’t. This supports what I’ve had said all
along, basically, though.
“…which I’ve always said that
David Koehler approached me about drawing the bear…
“…There was a reason, specifically,
that that was the year they decided to adopt an image for the Central bear
mascot.
“…They decided they wanted that
…painted mural to be their new bear, and that was what I was requested to draw
by Mr. Koehler.
“…That happened, I handed him over
the drawing…
“…My bear image, even if it’s based off this mural, It’s distinct in its’ own ways. Again, you can’t – Especially with 1987 technology, or in 1989 (the year Matt first saw his art was being used) – you couldn’t take this bear image (the mural) and reproduce it like the Central High School wants to, and has done for 30 years. So, it was definitely my bear, is what I am getting at.”
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| David Koehler, pictured on the far left, approached Matthew Hawes at the end of the 1987 school year to draw a rendition of the Central bear mascot based on the mural. This image Matthew would draw would be the drawing CHS used for the next three decades as the predominant image to represent the school. |
NOTE: Matt then goes on to explain how his bear drawing has been used
by Central over the years, and how eventually in 2012, his former teacher Mr.
Wootton learned about how Matt’s bear has been used without Matt receiving any
recognition over the years. Matt then explains how Mr. Wootton wrote the school
that year to see if he could help resolve the issue.
Neidig: “I believe I’ve actually talked to Mr. Wootton.”
Hawes: “Okay.”
Matt then continues to explain how Mr. Wootton wrote in May of 2012 but
did not get a response until he followed up months later in October 2012. He
brings up how Paul Neidig relayed the message to Mr. Wootton through the
school’s secretary that the art Matt was claiming was his appeared on a school
yearbook before 1987. Matt goes onto explain how he then wrote the school and
the EVSC personally after Neidig’s answer to Wootton, and reminds Neidig and
the other EVSC members at the meeting of what a letter sent to Matt by Neidig
at the EVSC said regarding the matter, and how it mentions Matt contributed to
the design, while still asserting that the drawing in question that was still
in use by the school was an earlier work.
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| Jim Wootton (his name is misspelled in the above photo taken from the 1987 Central High School yearbook) wrote the school in 2012 on Matt's behalf, prompting a response from Paul Neidig that denied Matt's claim to having drawn the bear artwork, leading to the entire cause to get official credit and recognition by Matthew Hawes. |
Neidig: “…I honestly based that off of your information, Matt.
“…Just so you know, I was at
Central that entire time. I’ve been through a lot of bears in that building,
and I’ve never – I can tell you this – I probably know that building better
than the people that are currently working there, and I’ve never seen a bear,
or a rendition of the bear, or a drawing of the bear, that had the signature of
your’s on it.”
Neidig gestures to the print-out Matt brought that shows the one
instance Matt is then aware of where his art was printed with his signature
left intact.
Hawes: “I can tell you this much, the original does.”
Neidig: “In 2005, I can show you where I did it – You have it on
your website – There’s a copy of the bear. I actually at that time was doing
some -- My original degree was in technology education and graphic arts – And I
had taken Photoshop and scanned that into the computer and cleaned up a bunch
of lines. The only drawing, only rendition of it that I had, and I added all
the color, and I added the…”
Pamela Hight: “But it didn’t have his name on it?”
Neidig: “No, it didn’t have your name on it, I can tell you that. I never – Um – What I used did not have your name on it. And I can pull it up on my computer and show you the one I did in 2005.”
Hawes: “Actually, I would like to see it.”
NOTE: Paul Neidig never did show Matt Hawes the art on his computer.
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| Matt's bear drawing after it was altered by Paul Neidig in Photoshop in 2005, adding coor and going over the line art. |
Pamela Hight: “Now your drawing, just so I understand, your drawing
was a pen-and-ink, right?”
Hawes: “Pen-and-ink, yes.”
Neidig “I’m old, so I want to make sure I’m clear, here: You went
out of art class, based on Mr. Koehler’s direction, and went down to the gym
and drew the bear that was on the wall?”
Hawes: “Yeah.”
Neidig: “Kip Husk I think is the artist.”
Hawes: “Ok, yeah, because in investigating this myself… Was it…? …But, uh, Cowen, a football player
that passed away—“
Neidig: “Scott Cowen passed way in 1983 as a sophomore.”
Hawes: “It was actually ’82.”
Neidig: “That’s right, yeah. He was a sophomore, and that’s right,
because the class of the class of ’85 is the one that commissioned to have that
bear drawn (
the mural).”
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| Central student and football captain Scott Cowen collapsed during football practice at the school on October 25, 1982. He later passed away during brain surgery. The painted mural in Central's gymnasium was commissioned by local artists Larry Johnson and Kip Husk in his memory. |
Matt then goes onto say that he looked into the history behind the
mural after the time Neidig claimed Matt’s version appeared on a yearbook
before Matt said he drew it. He tells Neidig and the others that he assumed
Neidig was simply mistaken. Neidig explained:
Neidig: “I can tell you what I was referring to was that yearbook…”
Hawes: “1983?”
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| 1983 Central High yearbook. The bear on its cover originally came from a Walter Foster "How To Draw Bears" book. |
Neidig: “The origins – I know that that’s different.”
Hawes: “If I may, because I just wanted to ask you this directly,
this has always kind of concerned me, is when you sent that letter to me, you
did say you found that I contributed to the design, but then you tell me that
the bear in use was in use prior to my contribution.
“…What was my drawing, if it
wasn’t the contribution?”
Neidig: “What I was referring to was the original artwork that was
designed and painted by Kip Husk and Larry Johnson.”
Hawes: “Then that wasn’t my contribution?”
Neidig: “No, what I mean by that is you contributed to the contribution. And I do, Matt, completely believe that you went to the gym and you drawed a pen and ink rendition of that bear. I believe that. I believe you, and that’s why I said what I said in the letter, and I never meant to discredit you. I always believed that you drew a copy of the bear…”
Hawes: “Ok, but then, excuse me, if that’s the case, why do you say that the bear in use was used prior to my contribution? It is MY bear. When you go into that Central High School to this day, when you walk into that front hall, on that banner… On the banner, that’s MY bear.
It’s been my bear on t-shirts, it’s been my bear on the old street sign… It’s been my bear that’s been on pins, and newspaper articles, and other kinds of calendars, and stuff like that. Ever since the 1980’s… that’s been my artwork. That’s not this (holds up picture of painted mural), that’s not this (points to Walter Foster bear image), it is MY artwork.
“…When you Google Central High School, The first thing that you see is my bear. It may be the version you colored (to Neidig), but it’s my line work. It’s the bear.”
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| The bear mural appears behind the students in this picture. |
Jason Woebkenberg: “Can I ask a silly question? I am not—I mean, I
took art in high school, but I haven’t done anything with it, that’s for sure!
I’m just—And I don’t mean this to ask an ignorant question, but how – Because I
know this (the mural) is before you
did your’s, so, like when I look at it--- If you see a bear like I think you
mentioned on that banner in and out at Central, uh, seeing the outline – It’s
got the outline – isn’t it the same as this? (Woebkenberg gestures at the bear drawing Matt drew and the picture of
the mural.) I’m not trying to say I agree, but I just didn’t know.”
Matt then goes onto point out on pictures he brought of the different
images of the bears how there are definitely distinctions between the images.
The same pictures have been posted to Matt’s blog on this matter.
Matt goes on to explain how the one bear image in the pictures was
taken from the Walter Foster art book publication, “How To Draw Bears,” and
used for the cover of the 1983 yearbook. Then he points out how two images from
that same art book were later combined and used as the basis of the painted
mural by Larry Johnson and Kip Husk. As he is explaining this, he is
interrupted by Pamela Hight.
Hawes: “If I need to, I can bring in that book (the art book) to prove it.”
Hight: “Which it doesn’t matter. You can’t go back in time. We
don’t know who did this (she is referring
to the Walter Foster drawing.)
Hawes: “No, we do know who did this, that’s the thing!”
Hight: “I mean we don’t know who put it on the (year)book. Who would authorize what
you….”
Hawes: “But, this supports my claims.”
Woebkenberg: “See, I look at that, and that looks like that one (he points to the picture of the mural and
the picture on which the mural was based).”
Hawes: “It is that one.”
Woebkenberg: “But it also looks like another one—“
Matt goes on to demonstrate exactly how the images were taken from the
Walter Foster book to create an image that became the painted mural from
Central’s gymnasium.
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| The first image at the top was used, with alterations to remove the extra heads, on the CHS 1983 yearbook. The other image beside it also was taken from the Walter Foster publication "How To Draw Bears." On the far right at top is an example of how the two drawings were merged, and at the very bottom is a screen grab from a video that shows the painted mural hanging in the CHS gymnasium in Evansville, Indiana. |
Hight: “I will tell you that I spoke with the artists that did this
bear (the mural), and they told me it
was an original drawing. …From the artist that painted it on the wall.
Hawes: “Oh, he said it was an original drawing, not from this book
(the art book)?”
Hight: “Correct. He doesn’t know anything about--”
Hawes: “Yeah, I’m sure he doesn’t.
Hight: “I’m just telling you.”
Hawes: “I’m sure he doesn’t.”
Woebkenberg: “So, you’re implying the artist that did that used
this book (the art book)?
Hawes: “I don’t know what he used, but he used that image that’s
derived from that book.
Hight: “He told me he drew it. Now whether or not he did the same
thing you did, and he looked at that and he drew it or he painted it, I don’t
know.“
Hawes: “This is kind of a moot point, because I am not challenging
where he got the bear from, I’m just explaining that this bear (from the art book) is this bear (from the mural).
“…My bear drawing, frankly, does
not match up (in comparison to the mural),
you see? It’s similar, and close, but it does not match up. You superimpose (Matt’s artwork) on top of that (the mural), it doesn’t match!”
Woebkenberg then attempts to say that he can’t spot any distinction
between the different works. Matt goes on to point them out to him.
Hawes: “This drawing, or this drawing, looks like that exactly?”
Woebkenberg: “I guess they—I guess I – Um – They all look similar
to me, I guess.
Hawes: “ They look ‘similar,’ do they look exact?”
Woebkenberg: “Pretty close, I mean—“
Hawes: “Do you think casual observers would say so?”
Pamela Hight stops Jason Woebkenberg from answering to bring up the
article from the 1986 edition of “The Centralian” which discussed a committee
of students and teachers led by David Koehler to officially choose an official
bear mascot image to be based on the mural.
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| Matthew Hawes in 1986-1987, around the time he drew the Central bear artwork. |
Hight: “I think part of the issue of this is that, because this (
the newspaper article) says that this (
the mural) is the official mascot of
Central. This was back in ’86. This painting is the official mascot. We all
agree, right?”
Hawes: “Well, I agree that they wanted that to be put into a form
that they could use, right.”
Hight: “So, when you agreed to draw it, so that it could be used in
other formats because, like you said, you can’t get it off the wall. I mean,
that was 1986, and we didn’t have the technology to put into any other format
unless somebody drew it. So, I think, from what we’ve been able to figure out
in our research, and we have lots of other stuff, too, that when people used
your drawing – Not knowing it was your drawing – Because, apparently, it showed
up in 1982 or ‘83 on that basketball--”
Hawes: “My drawing did not show up in 1982, ’83.”
Hight: “Well, we can’t find where it was used before that. Okay, so
it may have been, but I can’t find it anywhere.”
Hawes: “My actual line work?”
Hight: “I can’t find your line work and believe me, if I could find
it, you would have it! I would give it to you. We tried to find it. “
Woebkenberg: “They even looked in the archive room.”
Hight: “I’ve been in the archive room so many times, I know it
inside-out now. We have been trying really, really hard because we wanted to
give it to you, so that if anybody ever used it, they would have to ask you for
it. We couldn’t find it. So, we’ve called every old – “
Neidig: “Matt, here’s what I’ve done: At this point, and Pam and I
– She’s put more hours into this than I have – But, I’ve talked to Joan Finch,
who was the principal of the school when you were there. I asked Joan for any
information that she could help me with –“
The meeting is interrupted by someone outside the room, and Neidig
leaves momentarily to address that issue while Matt and Hight, and Woebkenberg
continue on the discussion.
Woebkenberg: “I know that the current principal also asked her
staff if anyone’s seen the original drawing you’re asking about and no one
there knows anything about it. Of course, you’re talking thirty years ago, so,
I mean, there’s a lot of people that have long since retired, passed away, you
know, unfortunately, so –“
Hight: “We called the old athletic director that you mentioned in
your blog (NOTE: Matt mentioned a
secretary for the department, not the director of the department), she
doesn’t remember having it, or doesn’t know anything about it. Trust me, we
really wanted to get it back to you.”
Hawes: “Do you see, my issue here isn’t just about you finding the
original art or not, it’s about acknowledging the drawing you have used is my
artwork, and simply give me credit for it.”
Hight: “Well, here’s our concern, it’s that when people have used
it over the years, they thought they were using this (the mural), because this is the official mascot, a likeness of
this. Which they were, because you drew a likeness of this, right? In order to
use the official mascot bear, that at that time was the official bear they used
that drawing (Matt’s artwork). But we
don’t know who – Because – “
Hawes: “This is a game of semantics. You’re trying to say, ‘It’s
the mascot’s credit.' No, it is MY art that you have used that was based off
the mascot. I’m simply asking for credit! Are you trying to say you can’t give
me credit for artwork that you’ve used, that’s been mine all along, simply
because I based it on the mural, the drawing is the mascot?”
Hight: “(Pointing to the 1986
article) It says right here that it’s the mascot.”
Hawes: “I think that anybody else who was listening to this, who
wasn’t biased, would be able to say that –!“
Woebkenberg: “I think the issue here is that nobody is wanting to
disrespect you, Matt. I hope it doesn’t seem that way. The bottom line is that
I don’t think anyone can prove or disprove, or, I mean – We’ve got so many
different bears here, that I know you are saying your’s isn’t anything like
this, but to the casual observer, they all look the same, to me. Clearly, I’m
not an artist, so – “
Hight: “Nobody is saying that’s not your drawing. And we’ve never
said that’s not your drawing.”
Hawes: “Has somebody else laid claim to it? So, why can’t I get my
credit?”
Hight: “It’s – I’m not – I’m not saying you didn’t draw that bear.
No one is saying that. My concern is this bear (the mural) was donated as the mascot of the bear in memory of the
gentleman, a young man who died on the football field from a brain injury. So, this (the mural) is what people thought they
were using when they used that picture (Matt’s
drawing). They thought that they were – They never intended to take – There
was never a conscious effort to take a drawing that you did, take your name off
of it, to hide the fact that they were using your drawing. That never, ever –
There was never that intent.”
Matt mentions that he never thought the school would intentionally try
to hide his signature until after the response he received from the EVSC in
2012.
Hight: “But if somebody thought that this was – When you were
there, and if you would have picked up this picture, this drawing (Matt’s drawing), and thought that it was
the official drawing for the bear, for the school, and put it on a t-shirt –
Y’know, it’s probably got lots of copies over the years, lots of versions.”
Woebkenberg: “There’s such an enormity of students over the years
at Central that’s drawn the bear, I would –“
Hawes: “No, this bear image (pointing to his art), this specific
image is the same. Do you realize that you’re talking to an artist, here, who
will recognize, like, the distinctions here between – “
Hight and Woebkenberg start to start other each other:
Hight: “You absolutely would, Matt –“
Woebkenberg: “But I understand, we are no artists, I’ve made that
very clear.”
Hight: “You absolutely would. You would know your bear, because you
are an artist. Your drawings are very, very good. In fact, in high school they
were very good. No one is saying that.
Matt then points out the likenesses between two versions of his drawing
of the bear. One, colored by Paul Neidig, the other without the color, as
originally drawn.
Hawes: “Each line matches the same line, whether it was colored, or
not.
Hight: “But, what I see is that the people over the years that have
used this drawing –“
Hawes: “I know that you are trying to tell me that they thought
that they were using the mural.
Hight: “They thought that they were using the official bear, yes.”
Woebkenberg: “Please explain, how is it different than, I mean –
because, Batman, if I sit here and draw Batman, I can’t take credit for that.
Hawes: “Do you know Jim Lee, he’s an artist.”
Woebkenberg: “Okay.”
Hawes: “Frank Miller is an artist.”
Woebkenberg: “Sure.”
Woebkenberg: “I don’t know their names, I –“
Hawes: “A lot of people do know their names. ‘Sin City,’ have you
heard of the movie ‘Sin City’?”
Woebkenberg: “Yes. I have
heard of that, yes. It was filmed in black and white?”
Hawes: “Created by an artist named Frank Miller. He did the movie
that, which, by the way, he received credit, of course, for his own work, but
also – He’s known for doing a book called ‘The Dark Knight Returns’ with
Batman…, ok? The recent movie, ‘Batman v Superman’ credits him because they
take elements from that story. He’s not Bob Kane. Bob Kane was the guy who
first drew Batman. Frank Miller did, and does, receive credit for the work he
did on Batman. Jim Lee, another artist – I could name countless artists, we’d
be in here all day, obviously, by doing this. Yes, they do credit artists, for
drawing their own version of a character or image. Of course they do!”
Hight: “But, you can understand that –“
Woebkenberg: “And I don’t dis – I don’t – I don’t know if that’s
true, I don’t know. That is why I’m asking.”
Hight: “You can understand how over the years, if this drawing was
used around the high school, that it could have – Your name could have gotten
dropped off accidentally –“
Hawes: “I can understand that part because of the design element. I
do agree with that part, that it can be dropped off without any malicious
intent.”
Hight: “Right.”
Hawes: “My problem is, even whenever I’m sitting here talking to
you, it’s clear that you guys are still wanting to take the stance that because
other people might confuse it (my drawing)
with that bear (the mural), I don’t
deserve credit.
Woebkenberg: “It looks like you did get credit here, right?
Woebkenberg points to basketball
program book where Matt’s signature is on the cover, the one-time Matt knew it
was left intact before this meeting.
Woebkenberg: “Because your name is on here.”
Hight: “Yeah.”
NOTE: Interesting Jason Woebkenberg chose to use the appearance of a
signature as proof that the school had given Matt Hawes official credit at one
time, at least. However, he, along with Pamela Hight and Paul Neidig have been
fighting to give any recognition or credit to Matt publicly based on claiming
people would have thought they were using a painted mural when using his line
work… somehow… and were not saying he didn’t draw a bear, but claim they
couldn’t prove that any bear used by the school was his work.
Interestingly, during
all this discussion, their defense swung one way, then another, with little
consistency between their conflicting points.
Hawes: “Ok, they (Central
High School) actually let another
company, which you had just told me yourself wasn’t printed by Central, didn’t
mark it out, or mask it whenever they printed it. So, it escaped the one time,
I guess.”
Hight: “But I don’t think they would have masked it if you get
whoever gave them this artwork –“
Hawes: “It was masked several times.”
Hight: “Would you like to have a copy?” (of the Central Basketball program book that has Matt’s signature on it.)
Hawes: “…I’ll take that one, sure. I’ll have the real deal, sure.”
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| 2003-2004 CHS basketball program that shows Matt's signature on the cover. |
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| Close-up of signature. |
Here, they actually let Matt have concrete evidence that proves that
the bear is his art, an official school publication, regardless if it was
printed at the school or not, that sports his signature on the bear he has
repeatedly argued was his work, the same exact image that has been used
countless times in three decades. Oddly enough, the EVSC staffers continued to
argue against giving him official credit…
Neidig: “On my word, I can promise you, I never seen a rendition of
that bear, or that bear with your name on it. I’m just – I promise you that.
Hawes: “And I’m not saying that you haven’t, because, you know, it
was the original art that had it. But, when it was reproduced, it was usually
dropped. I said this is the only instance I know of where it hasn’t been
dropped.”
Neidig: “And I don’t know where it came from.”
NOTE: One wonders if Neidig and the other EVSC staffers think Matt’s
name just appeared, as if by magic, on the 2003-2004 publication being
discussed. A publication printed some 16 years or so after Matt graduated from
the high school.
Neidig: “Just a couple of things, then. I don’t know if you guys
finished up, yet…”
Hight: “No, I – Well, I just – I wanted to just tell you (Matt) a couple of things. I think, on
your blog you mentioned that we never gave credit for this drawing (the painted bear mural), and it is actually
signed, and there’s…“
Hawes: “See, I don’t remember where I specifically said you didn’t
or I don’t think you did.
NOTE: Matt’s blog actually states: “As far as I know, Evansville’s
Central High School has never credited the artist of the 1983 yearbook cover
(certainly not in that publication), the artist who painted the mural, or me,
for my bear I drew in 1987.” All of which was true of Matt’s knowledge when he
created that graphic posted on the blog in 2012. And that statement was indeed
true, that Matt wasn’t aware of such credits at the time.
Hight: “Well, it’s signed, and dated, and there was some newspaper
stories done back in ‘84 –“
Hawes: “So, you did give credit to somebody else who drew the
bear?”
Hight: “Well, he signed it!
Hawes: “I did, too! I did too.”
Hight: “Well, I know, sir, but I – I can’t – I can’t –
Woebkenberg: “We can’t go back in time.”
Hight: “It’s happened over thirty years, I can’t go back in time.”
Woebkenberg: “You have to keep in mind, so many people who were
involved when you were there have not been there for years, or retired, or passed
away. I mean, there’s just…”
Hight: “That they signed…”
Woebkenberg: “We can’t go back like it was yesterday, I mean.
Things have changed a lot since you were there. That’s a long time.
Hight: “Yeah. We don’t know – How – I – I mean tried to trace every
place that this was used. Now, the first times I saw it was used -- Now it may
have been on it may have been on a graduation announcement…
“…was this one, with that date on
it. Where it was obviously – This is his drawing, and it was used with your name
on it. “
NOTE: Interestingly, was Pamela Hight now claiming Matt’s signature
appeared on someone else’s work? Now that they couldn’t dispute Matt’s
signature appearing on a Central publication, were they going to now argue the
signature was his, but the art wasn’t?
Hight: “That’s the first time I think I – There are lots of
variations of bears that’s been used.”
NOTE: Hight then starts flipping through a small stack of different
bear images. While this was supposed to show that Matt’s drawing was not the
sole drawing of a bear used, even for the past three decades, a point Matt has never
argued, that his was the sole representation of the bear, but rather that his drawing
was the predominant image used to represent the school since the late 1980s’.
What the stack of pictures also revealed was certainly very interesting though,
as the following text will reveal.
Hawes: “Let me see those, I’ll show you.”
NOTE: Matt gestures towards the pictures that Hight is displaying.
Hawes: “Can I see them?”
Hight: “Well, and I’m not saying that these are not your’s.”
Hawes: “I know they aren’t, I can tell you that –“
Woebkenberg: “And I’m sure in any of our high schools we have
students that over the last thirty years who have done a lot of drawings of
huskies, or panthers, or bulldogs, or whatever the case may be.”
NOTE: While the EVSC staffers continue to point out the other bears in
the stack, Matt spots his own bear drawing again.
Hawes: “Let me take a picture of this.”
Hight: “I – You can have it!”
As Hight starts up again about another painting in the gym, Matt
singles out the picture with his artwork to demonstrate something fascinating
about that picture. The EVSC, obviously not aware of what they just handed over
to Matt.
Hawes: ”It’s been edited to shift it, that IS the same signature!”
NOTE: Matt flips for all to see the picture of a cover to the Central
High School “Senior Activities, Class of 1999” booklet, and points to where it
shows his signature, an exact match to the one that was left intact on the
basketball program booklet from the 2003-2004 school year. He points out that
both books have those identical signatures with the same bear drawing.
 |
| Matt's bear drawing was used again for this 1999 "Senior Activities" booklet from the school. Another artist added a background, but Matt's signature was kept intact, if shifted over from its original position. |
 |
| A close-up of the abbreviated signature that matches the signature on the 2003-2004 basketball program book. |
A moment of silence, then…
Hight: “Oh this one? Yeah, this one is your’s”
Neidig: “mm-hm.”
Hight: “Yeah.”
NOTE: Paul Neidig suddenly tries to assert that this is an example of
credit. His co-workers quickly jump in to agree.
Woebkenberg: “So, you have credit there!”
Hight: “Yeah, the bear, so this one – “
Hawes: “My signature was left on it, but here’s the thing, when
the…”
Hight: “And that was nice that they gave you your credit.”
Hawes: “That was nice.”
Woebkenberg: “So, I guess from that standpoint, I mean, there are a
couple of examples here you got some credit?”
Hawes: “There was a couple of credits where my signature was left,
that is not the same as what I’ve been saying is official credit, or
recognition.
Woebkenberg: “I guess I still don’t understand the difference
because kids draw things for our schools all the time…”
Hawes: “You are a teacher?”
Woebkenberg: “I’m a former teacher, yeah.”
Hawes: “You don’t understand the difference?
Woebkenberg: “Between that, no, because I guess – “
Hawes: “This isn’t a semantics game, you really don’t understand?”
Woebkenberg: “No, I – I guess what I’m trying – Your name’s on both
of those, so there’s your name. But, I mean, I guess from my standpoint,
students in high school draw things all the time.
Neidig: “Matt, help me understand something. Just – I’m just trying
-- I’m really wanting to get my arms around this. Um, before I get to that, I
just want to tell you what we’ve done. Because, we’ve been trying to find it,
okay? And, um, I’ve gone back to Mrs. Finch as I was starting to say, and I
talked to Mrs. Finch and, um, she really couldn’t give much information. Um,
I’ve talked to Ed Cole, and Ed remembers you well as a student, called you a
fine artist for him who did a lot of cartoon work. Uh, Mr. Cole does not – He
said he remember you drawing a bear that was more kind of cartoon-like, um, but
he doesn’t ever remember seeing that bear. Okay?
“…I also talked to, um, Alicia
Gooch, okay? I think at one point, Matt, you said that – Somewhere I read that
Mrs. Gooch had it under lock and key?
Hawes: “That’s what I understood. At least, I was told she was
protective is what I understood.”
Neidig: “Mrs. Gooch was actually my secretary in the athletic
office and she served as athletic secretary for one year before I became
athletic director. And, um, I went to Mrs. Gooch and I asked Mrs. Gooch if she
recalled ever seeing that bear anywhere in the athletic office. Um, she does
not recall. I was in that athletic office for ten years and I don’t ever recall
seeing that bear under lock and key. We went back to the athletic office, we
went through every drawer, we went through every file cabinet. ”
Hawes: “Okay, let me ask you; with most printing you need a good,
clean image. If not the original, than what I presume was a really nice, clean
scan. This has been reproduced. There’s no dispute, I think, that I can think
of, that’s been brought up that it’s been used consistently (since 1988). How are you making such
clean scans?”
Neidig: “I can tell you what I did. I did two different versions
and I personally did it. I found the best copy, where it was at, at the time, I
used the scanner at school, um, pulled it into an early version of 2005
Photoshop, and I spent hours, um, erasing speckles and cleaning up parts of it,
and, um, trying to make it better. Recolored every line in, um, and spent hours
trying to crispen it up so it could be utilized, and then I also, um, added the
color. And, the color one is the one you have on your blog that I could show
you I did in 2005.
NOTE: Again, Neidig never showed this image on the computer to Matt.
Hawes: “No, I didn’t do the color, I won’t dispute you on that.”
Neidig: “No, I did that. …And, Matt, I can tell you this; if we
laid those side by side (the color
version of Matt’s bear and the black and white version), they’re going to
be very close, um, but an exact reproduction I couldn’t do because the original
that I used wasn’t good enough, you know. And a lot of those things have been,
uh –“
Hawes: “It was 2005?”
Neidig: “Uh-huh.”
Hawes: “This was 2004—“
NOTE: Matt picks up the basketball program with his signed artwork.
Neidig: “Oh, I know.”
Hight: “Somebody else has colored it in, obviously.”
Hawes: “You don’t understand what I’m saying … I’m saying the line
work was reproduced!”
Neidig: “Central High School did not have that, Matt.”
Hawes: “Was this ‘The Class of 1999’?”
NOTE: Matt holds up the photo of the “Senior Activities” booklet that
also sports his signature on its’ cover.
Hight: “Yes…”
Hawes: “So, before 2005?”
NOTE: Both Hight and Woebkenberg try to interject with objections.
Hawes: “Both these instances were before 2005 (holding up the basketball program and the 1999 Senior Activities
picture)! Both of them have my signature! Was my signature removed in
2005?”
Neidig: “Not on the one that I used, Matt.”
Hight: “Somewhere…”
Woebkenberg: “Nobody is trying to discredit you, Matt.”
Hight: “I contacted the sign company to try to find that bear
you’re talking about, to see where they got the drawing, if they have the
original, because we’re trying to get that –“
NOTE: There is a flurry of conversation, mostly of Woebkenberg trying
to convince Matt that nobody is trying to discredit him.
Hawes: “When you are trying to say that I did not draw the bear
that I drew, you are trying to discredit me.”
Neidig: “I didn’t say that.”
Hawes: “You said – Okay, if we’re going to play legalese, you’re
trying to be specific right now, but you do say that the bear now which has
been used, was in use prior to my contribution. It wasn’t. That is trying to (discredit) me there.”
Woebkenberg: “Anything you did draw, we appreciate it.”
Hawes: “Then, if you’re saying I did draw it and you appreciate it,
I don’t understand what the complication is simply giving some acknowledgement.
Woebkenberg: “But, I guess you have that –“
NOTE: Woebkenberg gestures again toward to examples with Matt’s
signatures on the covers.
Hawes: “Is that public acknowledgement?
Woebkenberg: “The secretary to the company – “
NOTE: Woebkenberg gestures toward a copy of the 2012 EVSC letter from
Paul Neidig which notes Matt contributed to the design, while still denying him
credit for the actual drawing.
Hawes: “This letter does not acknowledge me... In fact, it’s denies
me acknowledgment!”
Neidig: “Hold on. Matt, let me – I wanna – I don’t want to mix
words, here. What I said here (in the
2012 letter), that ‘In the past, while a student, contributed to the
mascot’s design,’ I said in the beginning, I think you drew a bear. I think you
drew one of these bears right here (referring
to the pictures on the table). I’m not – I’ve not said that you didn’t,
Matt, and that’s what I’m saying there. I based that on what you told me. I
believed you, okay? And then I go on to say, ‘the basic bear drawing
compilation now in use, was used prior to your contribution.’ What I meant by
that is that painting was drawn and painted prior to you, your contribution…”
Hawes: “And I understand that is what you were trying to say—“
Woebkenberg: “We acknowledged that you contributed in some way.”
Hawes: “You didn’t specify, because to specify would be to say it
is this art (Matt’s drawing) that has
been reproduced.”
NOTE: The room was silent for a beat, then Matt continued.
Hawes: “You’re trying to say that this bear (Matt’s bear) is this bear (the
mural) in the sense that the artwork being used is THAT bear (the mural)! That mural is not what’s
being used! My version has been reproduced.”
Neidig: “Matt, help me with this. Um, just so I can underst—I’ve
tried to understand your position, okay?
Hawes: “For the unbiased, it’d be clear to understand.”
Neidig: “If somebody went – and the Mona Lisa is, is on the wall
over there, and somebody went and took pen and ink and reproduced the Mona
Lisa, and that Mona Lisa was then used in other aspects. Who gets credit for
that?”
Hawes: “The recreated use, if it was done in line work form? The
artist who recreated it.
Woebkenberg: “Isn’t that just an example of somebody looking at
somebody else’s artwork and then sketching it?”
Hawes: “First off, that is a painting (the Mona Lisa), okay? Again, like with this (the mural), it can’t be (reproduced)
as pen and ink work. You don’t think that (man
or woman), I know this is hypothetical, you don’t think they’d receive
credit for their work?”
Woebkenberg: “Well, why would they if they are just redrawing
someone else’s artwork?... I’m just asking…”
Hawes: “Why would they? Because it’s still their distinct version
of that work. Andy Warhol – Do you guys know Andy Warhol?”
Woebkenberg: “No, doesn’t – The name –“
Hawes: “The artist’s most famous painting is a bunch of cans of
Campbell soup.”
Woebkenberg: “Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah…”
Hawes: “He also incorporated images from comic books, he swiped
them, which is what we’re talking about, the swiping. But, it was an accepted
form called ‘pop art’. And, he was
credited for it, very well so, very much so. And he took straight panels from
comic books. Yes, artists are credited for recreating other works. There’s a
long history of that.”
NOTE: The issue of the mural in the gym and why it was created comes up
again.
Neidig: “The reason that bear came to life, in memory of Scott
Cowen, who passed away. They went to Kip, and the other artist, they
commissioned them to draw a drawing for Central High School.”
Hight: “They were paid.”
Matt’s witness: “He got credit for doing that—“
Hight: “He was paid, yes.”
Matt’s witness: “And he would have got credit, if he was paid?”
Hight: “Well, he signed it, and he – “
Matt’s witness: “So, you all gave him credit?”
Hight: “He was a business owner.”
Woebkenberg: “He wasn’t a student.”
Hight: “He wasn’t a student.”
Hawes: “So, it’s okay for a minor to be exploited by a school
system?
Woebkenberg: “I guess my point is that students in every high
school do artwork—“
Hawes: “That doesn’t mean it’s right.”
Hight: “If that’s the case, then we need to credit ---
“…We can’t go back and pay you
for all these times…”
Hawes: “I did not say it was for monetary compensation. I did not
say that. I said all along that I realize that’s not going to happen and I was
never arguing that point.
“The simplest thing I am asking for is just simply for some
public acknowledgement. It could even be just a mention on a website. Because,
you guys so far, since 2012, since it was brought up to you, have tried to deny
I drew this bear. You tried to discredit – I’m sorry, but anybody else reading
this (the 2012 EVSC letter)—“
Woebkenberg: “That letter says that you contributed to it – “
Hawes: “…I wonder what the game is, here?”
Woebkenberg: “Oh, there’s no game.”
Matt’s witness: “Well, there has to be, because you’re bringing up
money.”
Hawes: “…Actually, I drew the drawing you are using! The design was
based off of that painting. And, your trying to say because there’s a painting
that existed before my contribution of the drawing – The drawing which has been
reproduced – Not the painting – You’re trying to say that this is somehow –
That (the mural) erases what happened
here (Matt’s drawing). No, it
doesn’t!”
Hight: “We’re not saying it erases anything. So – So, let me just
underst—See if I can understand what you want. You would like for us to put up
a plaque, or sign, or something, that you redrew this bear, and this image was
used by Central?”
Hawes: “I want you to say that this drawing which you have used for
the last thirty years now is my artwork. You’re trying to spin it, still.”
Hight: “No! I’m trying to understand how – we’re trying to keep the
memory of this young man (in reference to
Scott Cowen)…”
NOTE: Jason Woebkenberg interjects to note that the time is drawing
close to their next meetings and they need to wrap things up. It was pretty
unseemly and perhaps even disingenuous for Pamela Hight to invoke the memory of
a student who died tragically to excuse the school from giving Matt his due
credit.
The use of the mural serves as a memorial to the deceased, but the
artwork Matt created was used for other purposes, including merchandise, as was
its intended purpose, as even stated in the 1986 edition of “The Centralian.”
Does the EVSC pay a stipend to the family of Scott Cowen based on sales
resulting from the use of the image Matt drew of the bear? If not, Ms. Hight’s words
truly do not ring sincere.
Mr. Woebkenberg asked Matt if there was anything
left to show the EVSC staff. Matt asked if he could have a picture of the
mural, but was only given a picture showing the names of the artists from the
bottom of the painting.
Neidig: “Look, let me just throw something out here, okay? Um, I
can’t find an instance where somebody, um, removed your name – I’m sure it was
there, I don’t discredit that. What we can do, and we’ll have to have you help
us when we get a decent drawing of it, is have you sign a, uh, bear that you’ve
done, okay? -- That you claim that you recognize as your’s -- And, then, we’ll, if that artwork is used in any form, in the future, we’ll make sure that your
name is associated with that artwork.”
Woebkenberg: “I’d say that’s what you’re asking for.”
Hawes: “No, it’s not (‘I want
credit’) for the past, too. Because, that bear – Are you going to take down
the bear from Central? Are you going to take down every other instance of this
drawing of the bear? I’m not asking you to, by the way, I just simply what’s
(being said). I’m not asking for that. But, if you’re going to say now that,
only in the future instances will you now officially credit me, if you guys
used the bear, then you’re trying not to say that the bear, that this same
drawing was my drawing.”
Woebkenberg: “I think some of those things used is too questionable
to know whether it is your’s, another student’s, or the original—“
Hawes: “I don’t think it is. Anybody, who doesn’t even know art and
who is not biased knows it. ”
NOTE: Matt’s witness asks a question about the “How To Draw” art book,
and how it was used, to which Mr. Neidig then explains the use of clip art and
how it was used by the school. Matt explains that he has no issues about the
school using the art book and brought it up only to explain the origins behind
the mural.
Hight: “I – I don’t think this bear (the mural) was drawn from this bear (the Walter Foster art book bear), according to Mr. Husk. This (the mural) was an original.”
Hawes: “…It was an original painting, yes, but he based it off of
those drawings, just the same as I based this (Matt’s bear drawing) off that (the
mural). You can acknowledge that this (the
mural) would deserve credit for, even though it’s based off of this (a drawing from the art book), and
another picture from that same book which I can prove… So, when I draw this (the mural), somehow I – I don’t get credit for it.”
Hight: “Well, when you – when mister – when you talked to Mr. Husk,
did he say they got it from here? Because when I talked to him –“
Hawes: “I didn’t talk to him.”
Hight: “Well, you just said he based it off of this. (the art book drawings)”
Hawes: “It’s obvious that he did!
NOTE: There was some abrupt interruption by Woebjkenberg with Hawes,
and Hight, all three speaking at once, then…
Hight: “After you gave your drawing to Mr. Koehler, we cannot – We
don’t know what happened to it. It was – It – It – ended up being around
Central somewhere. We don’t know if, then, he gave it to the newspaper and said
‘use this,’ we don’t know if he – We – we just, we don’t know. And he’s not
here, so we can’t ask him. I would love to, we would love to know at what point
did somebody say, ‘Let’s start using Matt’s drawing.’ Because, we don’t know.
But, it -- it’s in our -- hearts that we
need to keep the legacy up, that this painting was drawn for.”
Hawes: “I’m not against that.”
Hight: “Because this poor, young man passed away, and another class
had this commissioned for him. So, it’s really important that we have to keep
that legacy. And, so it’s the official mascot in memory of this young man.”
NOTE: Here again Ms. Hight invokes the memory of the teen who
tragically lost his life on Central’s property as leverage to excuse the school
for not giving Matt his recognition or credit. Never mind that the mural was
paid for and the artists for that mural was given recognition, and that it was
that mural that was commissioned in memory of Scott Cowen, but that the bear
drawing Mr. Koehler had Matt draw was done for purpose that include commercial
sales, once again, as state in “The Centralian” article from 1986.
How do some
people sleep peacefully that use such tactics as it appears has been used in
this instance, is a wonderment.
Hawes: “(Concerning using the bear drawing to honor Cowen’s memory) --
Which is fine, by the way, it being used. I’m not arguing anything except for
that I want credit and acknowledgement. I didn’t do anything different than
this man here did (gesturing to Husk’s
mural).”
Hight: “But, I think that – No, what I
was saying was, we have to say that, I mean, we have to give credit to, that
this is the official mascot (the mural)…”
“…It was a
commissioned painting…”
NOTE: Jason Woebkenberg interrupts as Matt
and Ms. Hight debate a few seconds more to announce that they have to wrap
things up.
Neidig: “I wish I could find the
drawing.”
Hawes: “This actual image (Matt shows his drawing) – the bear –“
Neidig: “There are instances of that
bear up at Central High School. I cannot tell you the last time it was used,
but I do know there are current instances up. Um, the other thing I’ve done,
Matt, is I reached out, I had the principal send an e-mail out to the entire
faculty, staff, custodial, and secretaries, and asked them, um, if they ever
been aware of that bear, if they know where it might be. Um, please, let us
know.”
Matt’s witness: “So, you have to have
the original to give him credit?”
Neidig: “No, let me tell you what I was
thinking to do is, if I could find the original, what I want to do is frame it,
and I wanted to put it somewhere in the building, that has Matt’s name on it.
That was my intention all along. That’s what I wanted to do. I’ve not been able
to find it.”
Hawes: “How about this? Since I can see
that for some reason you guys are still resistant to offering me some kind of
public acknowledgement, even though you do admit that I’ve drawn instances with
the exact same image of the bear, how about you display a copy of this (the basketball program book)… in some
acknowledgement on the wall?”
Hight: “Can you draw us some other
version of that we can put it on the wall?”
Woebkenberg: “That’s a good idea!”
Hight: “Because that (the bear art Matt DID draw) isn’t really
your drawing.
Matt and his witness argue strongly that it
is indeed his drawing, and Matt asserts he will not give them a new drawing of
another bear.
Hight: “That’s not what I was going to
say, to put it up in our case with all our trophies that says that you drew
this because that’s been colorized (she
now refers to a colored version of Matt’s bear drawing) and your’s was the
original line drawing.”
Neidig: “That’s what we were looking
for. I wanted to find the original drawing, um, I was hoping I’d be able to
show you here today. We wanted to display it.”
Paul Neidig, Pamela Hight, and Jason
Woebkenberg went on to discuss their proposal for what they would do for Matt.
This was that they would have Matt draw a recreation of the bear he drew in
1987, which they would put in a case at Central, in its’ “Hall of Fame,” with a
notice that had Matt’s name, and class year, and possibly a notation of his
involvement with “The Centralian” as its’ cartoonist from 1984 to 1987.
When
Matt asked if there was any possibility of even a slight acknowledgement for
his bear being used in the past thirty years, at least recognizing the times
where a signature appeared, he was told that they would see what they could do,
and given no definite answer. Neidig then wanted to address something else:
Neidig: “Matt, the one thing I do want
to do to make sure this thing doesn’t go any further, all right, is I want to
make sure that Mr. Husk and Larry Johnson, I think is his name – What a little
bit of my fear is that they would come back and say that you copied their
work.”
Hawes: “No, no, I understand that.”
Nedig: You understand that?”
Hawes: “I understand, and you know
what? I welcome them to say that. I know where they got their bear.”
Neidig: “You know what I’m saying,
though? That’s a little bit of my fear because if they would come out and say –
That’s not good for you, that’s not good for any of us. … Mr. Husk would say, 'That’s nothing more than a line drawing of the bear that I originally created.' And then we’re, uh, you know…”
Hawes: “I can understand that. In fact,
I don’t mind talking to him myself.
Neidig: “…Everybody I’ve talked to, Mr.
Cole, they don’t – they – They like you.
Hawes: “I’m usually an agreeable
person.”
NOTE: After some more discussion about the
EVSC’s proposal, Matt asks Jason Woebkenberg about his being originally a
student of North High School, as Woebkenberg mentioned during their greetings.
Matt asks if he knows about artist and former North High School alumni Jon
Siau.
Woebkenberg: “Longtime art teacher,
local artist…”
Hawes: “They (North High) were proud of
him, I just kind of wanted Central to be proud of me.”
